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I just took life for

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I always took life for true

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Welcome to Duality Check, the podcast where
two brothers embark on a thrilling journey

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through the realms of scientific inquiry, the
mysteries of the past, and the uncharted realms

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of spirituality. Join us as we explore the wonders
of our world and beyond, all while embracing

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the roles of curious bystanders. Together we'll
unravel the tapestry of existence, blending

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the dichotomies of knowledge and wonder. Get
ready to question, ponder, and delve into the

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dualities that shape our understanding of reality
on Duality Check. I'm Drew. And I'm Dean. Welcome

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to episode 21. Part two. Part two of reincarnation.
And not our second take. No, definitely not.

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Perfect. Every time. Yeah, I dabbled in a little
bit of restructuring of our intro. So if you've

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caught the differences. Let us know. Shout out
the differences. You still left the GPT evidence

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word of delve in there though. Yeah. I thought
whatever. Yeah. I think, hold on, let me look

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through it. I think I just added that. No, no,
it's in there. Yep. No, no, it's in there.

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Yeah. I just chopped it a little bit, a few
things that didn't need to be there. So let

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me know if you spot the differences. It felt
weird for me listening to it. Did it feel like

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just a little bit off? Well, I just got so used
to what we've been hearing 20 times in a row.

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I know. Probably more than that with different
takes. Well, and all the editing sessions.

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Right, yeah. You've heard it multiple times
each time. Yeah, that's true. Welcome back.

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I'm our biggest listener. I listen to every
single episode twice. We get one view. We get

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two views right off the bat. All right, well,
so we're on reincarnation part two. Yeah, but

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you brought a few things that you wanted us
to go over. So yeah, we usually do like a little

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bit of like listener correspondence. We don't
have much. We did get a heart. And I want to

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shout out somebody. Here we go. I found the
button. Kelly VD, 29.95 on YouTube for the

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heart on the reincarnation part one episode.
Glad you hearted it. I hope you heart part

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two as well. Yeah. I might have to go back and
put a part one on that. I just realized I didn't

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put part one on there. Oh. It's fine. Oh, wow.
It's on the image. That's true. So yeah, these

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are just a couple Instagram stories, clips.
I don't even know this crap. Reels. Yeah. On

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Instagram, it's Reels. Get with it. So yeah,
I've just, you know, flipping through, I see

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some things and things that are suggested based
on the things that I watch. So this is one

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of the things that came up and it's, you know.
basically an idea of how Egypt, the Egyptians

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could have built the pyramids. So yeah, let's
watch it. And we can probably add this to the

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video too. Okay, I'm not playing that. It's
just music. Okay, so we'll just have to have

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it playing while we talk about it, but.

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Yeah, so it's basically... Looks like they're
trying to... They're floating them? So they're

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floating the bricks is what this idea is talking
about. Oh, they're like attaching flotation

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devices to them? And then they're setting them
up a little channel of water that they've created.

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And then they push them into place once they're
up there. And they cut them basically down

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at the base. So each of these blocks are flowing
and these little channels that are built at

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the top of the pyramids on the edges of where
they're needing to be placed. And they remove

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the flotation stuff in order to set the stones
in place. Yeah. So they float this whole field.

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They filled it all up with water and they got
a cow pulling the stones down the river. And

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they're pushing them under these channels. So
they got this whole aqueduct system, basically.

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And they're using the flotation of the stones
as a free elevator. Yeah, to get them up top.

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Which is a pretty cool idea.

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Hmm.

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And they create these little dammed water elevators.

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Huh. Yeah, you're going to have to, uh. You're
going to have to watch this for sure. If you're

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just listening, come back and go back when you
have the chance and watch. I'll try and take

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a bunch of snapshots of this and put them on
this segment. Yeah. That's really genius. Um,

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I don't know how practical it is. Yeah, I don't
know how practical it is. Well, my main question

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is this water elevator because if that whole
thing is full of water. How are they pumping

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that water up there? I guess the idea is they
fill it up from the top. And once it gets to

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the top, it's like full. And that being a shaft
down from the bottom. Yeah, I don't think that's

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how the, like. Well, they still have to pump
the water up to fill up the top, to fill up

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the shaft, to fill up the bottom, right? Sure.
But I guess this is fluid dynamics. It's like

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some subgenre of physics where it's like. they'll
try and predict, if I have something of this

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shape and water is put into it, and then I change
the shape in this way, how will the water level

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change? And a lot of times, it's counterintuitive.
So I don't actually know. Especially with water

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siphoning and stuff. My main concern is that
ramp, that elevator that they have up. Yeah.

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Because if you have that thing full of water
connected to water above, as soon as you open

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access to it to get the stone in there, I would
think all the water in that elevator would

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want to come rushing out.

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And I don't know how they would prevent that.
Right.

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unless it does rush out and they're constantly
filling it from the top, which still gives

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the thing with the flotation, the stream, right?
You have something rushing below it and it's

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floating. So it's going to go above the stream
and there's an effect. There's a, like a water

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movement where the water is rushing down it
at the bottom of the gate, but whatever's floating

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is going to take up the top of that gate. Yeah.
I mean, even if the water is rushing down.

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So, so there would be. There would be a... There
would be like a flotation force, right? Like

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whatever amount of buoyancy force from whatever
they attach to the stones, right? That makes

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it want to move up. But if the water is flowing
down, those two forces, like the buoyancy has

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to outweigh the gravity pulling all the water
down because if it's not rising faster than

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gravity is pulling it down, it would still net
move downward. Yeah, but the way water moves

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through pipes and stuff too, like there's air
above it that wants to escape so the air is

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moving up. So if you, as long as you have a
vent cap that you can pull off during the opening

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of the gate down below, the vent gap would pull
the water out. It would have a force of like

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release for the air. I guess that would be the
trick is you fill up the water elevator. then

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you cap it at the top so that there's no way
for air to come into the top to allow the water

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to flow down. And then at the bottom, if the
elevator goes down as far as underwater so

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that you push, oh, I'm knocking the microphone,
so that you push the stones under that lip

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and into the elevator so that it'll start rising.
And then you open an air. vent while you open

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the top gate when the bottom gates closed. So
you close the bottom gate. Right. So you let

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those in there. They'll start moving up. Once
they reach the top, you close the bottom gate,

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open the top gate, and then let the vent out
so that it lets the air just kind of equalize.

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Yeah. Well, as long as you only ever have one
side of that gate open, it's kind of like the

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whole thing with the, you ever seen that trick
where you have a cup of water and you. got

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you put like a coaster over the top of it, you
flip it upside down, and then you let go of

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the coaster. Yeah. And the water, you would
expect the water would just fall through the

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coaster, but because the air pocket wants to
go up, it would act, yeah, anyway. Yeah, it

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keeps the coaster to the lid of the gut, to
the rim of the gut. Because there's no way

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for air to get in there and displace the water.
Yep. to displace the coaster, which allows

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the water to go. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think
it's the same principle. So yeah, I thought

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it was fascinating. I thought you would get
a kick out of it. That is fascinating. And

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I wonder. I wonder if there's evidence of an
aquifer or some kind of aqueduct. They posted

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with it, the construction of the pyramids in
ancient Egypt remains a subject of fascination

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and study. With exact methods. While exact methods
are still debated, it's generally believed

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that they used a combination of skilled labor,
simple tools like ramps and levers, and careful

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planning to quarry, transport, and stack massive
stones into the iconic structures we see today.

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Theories suggest they may have used sledges,
ramps, possibly even water channels to move

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the stones. The sheer scale and precision of
their construction are remarkable feats of

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engineering for their time. So yeah, this isn't
even discounting the popular beliefs of today,

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right? Still levers and... But this is just
an understanding of mechanics of water, right?

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Yeah. Like if you know that you can trap water
and then open one end... And they could make

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a human-powered pump or like an oxygen-powered
pump where like just human movement turning

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a thing can create the negative pressure to
push the water up. Yep. But... Hmm. It's an

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interesting idea, especially knowing that likely
during the time they had full rivers and full

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access to water, right? Yeah, yeah. So there's
no reason they couldn't have understood these

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principles if given enough time. Yeah, so they
could have pumped water up there, but...

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Oh yeah, please, if we can't figure it out.
Saying it was magic would be more believable

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than this. Nah, bro, aliens. Yeah. I still don't
buy this because the thing with all these theories

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that try and use conventional means is they
never tackle the different technologies, which

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is all new stuff, right? So granted, like if
they're not into the alternative field, they're

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not following people like Ben or Christopher
Dunn. And so they don't have... the same sort

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of evidence we do that is so convincing that
these people had much more advanced capabilities.

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Right. But, yeah, to me the pyramid definitely
looks like a machine. Looks like a machine.

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Definitely looks like a machine, especially
given the context of all the religious sites

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that are nearby. Right. You have all the context
showing you that this is not a religious site.

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There were never any bodies found. No hieroglyphics.
There's never any hieroglyphics. Nothing. Yeah.

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So anyway, let's get to the next one. OK, so
this is NASA supposedly. And it's very, you

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know, there's not much to it. But NASA supposedly
found a super earth that is 30% to 70% bigger

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than Earth, but is also in like a Goldilocks
zone. OK. Let's take a look at this one.

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Okay, none of these actually have good audio
to go with. There's nothing, nobody talking

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over these. NASA found a super earth that is
30 to 70% bigger than earth. The world, this

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world orbits inside the habitable zone suitable
for life. If this is the recent discovery that

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just happened this week, it is a rocky planet
with an atmosphere that they found, but it's

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too hot for any earth-like life to. But we know
that in the thermal vents of the deep ocean,

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we know that there is life that exists down
there. No, right. I'm not saying you couldn't

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have life. It's just wouldn't have. It's just
what kind of life. Right. It wouldn't be Earth-like

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life. But potential for. It is outside of the
temperature ranges for the vast majority of

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life on Earth. Because we know that planets
do change their climates. Right. What they

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were saying is they're interested in studying
it as like an early Earth. Like, because essentially

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at one point, Earth would have been much like
this rocky planet they found. It would have

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a big gaseous atmosphere, and it would be super
hot and still in the process of cooling down.

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Which is perfect for dinosaurs. So maybe there's
dinosaurs. Dinosaurs like the heat. TOI-715b

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is the planet. Orbits quite close to its star.
Each orbit lasts just 19 days. But scientists-

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Oh, that's not the habitable zone. But scientists
don't think it's a hellish, scorching world

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like some of the exoplanets. That's because
its star is a red dwarf, which is both cooler

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and smaller than our medium-sized star. It would
have crazy tides from its star if it was moving

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that fast, or if it was that close to it. And
it's a red dwarf, so I mean, it's cooler. than

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ours, so being closer is not necessarily a death
wish. Yeah, the tides could be a big issue.

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It's probably destined not to ever be an ocean
planet. I mean, if we were that close to our

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sun, regardless of the heat, just the size of
the tides, to have a 19-day orbit, it would

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be so close. The tides would be so gigantic.
So even if there ever was dry land, the tides

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would wash it every single day. This doesn't
mean that it's impossible. No, no. I mean,

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there could still be water life. But that's
whether you take the evolutionary standpoint

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or a religious standpoint of being created.
Or the pan-spermia standpoint. Or pan-spermia.

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So OK. So then you're familiar with the Tuttle
Twins, but this specific ad got me. And it

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sent me on a little bit of a rabbit hole. Not
too deep, but I want to share. You want me

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00:16:42,459 --> 00:16:47,003
to play it first before you describe your rabbit
hole? Yeah, please. This one actually has usable

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00:16:47,123 --> 00:16:54,196
audio, I'm guessing. Yes. All right. I'm going
to try. Whatcha reading? This new Tuttle Twins

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book about American history. Anything interesting?
Well, it seems that during the Battle of Trenton,

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soldiers couldn't just ask for a time out or
head to the meditation room to do some breath

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work. Oh, you don't say. Yeah, and there were
no safe spaces on Bunker Hill. So triggering.

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This history stuff is scary. Parents, protect
your kids from microaggressions and do not

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get them this book.

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So that had made me laugh out loud. I was sitting
at work taking a small break and I watched

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it and I was laughing. And then what it did
was I clicked on it and it tells me who's,

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it tells me now, it's like a new thing that
they're doing at Instagram where it tells you

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who's. providing the funding for the ad. So
it told me that Libertas Institute is the one

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funding it. And then I went to their website
and I saw a story about Utah being the first

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state to put into law that people are allowed
to, companies are allowed to pay into a what

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is called a portable benefits program for their
workers because the gig economy is becoming

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so big. And you get a lot of these like contract
workers who are working without any benefits,

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without the benefit of having benefits from
these companies. So they're the first ones

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to allow. So today. Stride, a portable benefits
provider announced its choosing to debut its

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first ever independent worker contributions
program in Utah. The program will allow independent

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workers to receive health coverage, pay time
off, long times, long-term savings, and other

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benefits typically extended to traditional employees.
So now companies can now pay into like a floating

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benefits program for their people they depend
on for their money. these gig workers. So now

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you can get people who are working from multiple
companies doing different gigs. And each of

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these companies can now pay into a benefits
program, which the workers are going to demand,

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you know, they're going to be like, hey, I'll
only work if you pay into this thing to give

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me benefits. So then they can still have this
wide network of gig workers. And now they're

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getting benefits and they can they can provide
and they only have to pay them a small amount,

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but now they're paying a little bit extra into
these benefit programs. So it's an interesting

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thing that I saw. I don't really understand
the push for benefits to like contractors,

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because for me, like the whole appeal of going
independent, doing gig work, being a contractor

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is the fact that you don't have a job, you don't
have a boss, you don't have anyone. looking

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over you and you can arrange for your own stuff.
But I guess maybe it's more expensive. I'm

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sure it's more expensive to buy the benefits
individually rather than through your company.

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It is, yeah. So not only that, but people are
doing this because they need the flexibility,

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right? They wanna structure their lives so that
they have the flexibility of being able to

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do the gig work where they can make their own
hours and stuff. But still... have the like

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especially single parents right you think of
a single parent who has kids and they need

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extra money they need money and still have the
flexibility of being with their kids like they

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can do the gig work and have benefits without
having to pay the extra money to get all the

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benefits that they would have otherwise had
with a company but they now have to work a

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nine to five instead of being able to make their
own schedule yeah so i think it's in the direction

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of giving the workers a little bit more freedom.
Yeah, I suppose. For contract workers, I guess.

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And I thought it was just interesting topic.
Well, I know some states are trying to classify

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those gig economy jobs as full employee jobs.
And I know California is one of those states.

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Right, but at the same time, you get the companies
who have specific, they're having to pay these

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exorbitant amount of money for these employees
to be full time workers for benefits. when

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now these companies can have them be contractors
and only work whatever hours they want to work

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or can work and have multiple people fill that
position, but only pay a smaller percentage

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into a pool and expect that there are, I guess
it would depend. You would need them to work

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a specific amount of hours to make sense with
the company to pay a certain amount of money.

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The pool seems really hard to manage. I don't
know how well that's gonna come together. Yeah,

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I'm thinking about it now. a little bit hard
to figure out who's going to be paying what

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into the pool. Unless the pool is just to pay
for everybody's benefits, and they still have

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to come out of pocket for some of their benefits.
Well, they would have to put rules in place

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for how much you put into the pool through your
working in order to claim money back from it.

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Otherwise, there will be some people that take
advantage of the system and claim benefits

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they haven't fully paid for. That's true. Yeah,
I'm thinking about it now. But either way,

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it's something interesting. Interesting that
you went down that rabbit hole after seeing

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a Tuttle Twins ad. That made me think of how
Tuttle Twins is awesome. So if you're a parent

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and you have young children, I do highly recommend
the Tuttle Twins books. They're libertarian

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books. And they teach different concepts, but
they're written as children's books. So they're

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nice and simple and easy to digest. Well illustrated
and stuff. Yes. So they've got some on The

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Law. They've got some on Eye Pencil. Oh, yeah?
Yeah. They've got one on the Federal Reserve,

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The Creature from Jekyll Island. Food Trucks.
The Road to Serfdom, that's a famous libertarian

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book. The Golden Rule. Yeah, there's good stuff
in here. Yeah, I'm definitely going to be buying

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these once my kids get a little bit older. Yeah,
these are cool. Our sister has a bunch of these,

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so you might ask her because I don't know if
she would want some anymore. She might just

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give them to you. She buy well. Anyway, cool.
Well, uh, that was a little side topic. Do

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you want to introduce? Yeah, let's hop into
our first, uh, reincarnation story for the

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day. Okay. So this is the case of Chennai Chumalaiwong.
Well done. Thank you. Chennai Chumalaiwong

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was born in central Thailand in 1967 with two
birthmarks, one on the back of his head and

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one above his left eye. When he was born, his
family did not think that his birthmarks were

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particularly significant, but when he was three
years old, he began talking about a previous

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life. He said that he had been a school teacher
named Buakai, and that he had been shot and

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killed while on the way to school. He gave the
names of his parents, his wife, and two of

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his children from that life, and he persistently
begged his grandmother with whom he lived to

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take him to his previous parents' home in a
place called Kao Pra. Eventually, when he was

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still three years old, his grandmother did just
that. She and Chennai took a bus to a town

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near Kaupra, which was 15 miles away from their
home village. After the two of them got off

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the bus, Chennai led the way to a house where
he said his parents lived. The house belonged

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to an elderly couple whose son, Buakai Lanak,
had been a teacher who was murdered five years

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ago before Chennai was born. Chennai's grandmother,
it turned out, had previously lived just three

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miles away. Since she had a stall where she
sold goods to many people in the surrounding

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area, she vaguely knew Buakai and his wife.
She had never been to their home and had no

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idea to whose home Chennai was leading her.
Once there, Chennai identified Buakai's parents,

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who were there with a number of other family
members as his own. They were impressed enough

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by his statements and his birthmarks to invite
him to return a short time later. When he did,

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they tested him by asking him to pick out Buakai's
belongings from others. He was able to do just

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that. He recognized one of Buakai's daughters
and asked for the other one by name. Buakai's

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family accepted that Chennai was Buakai reborn,
and he visited them a number of times. He insisted

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that Buakai's daughters call him father. And
if they did not, he refused to talk to them.

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As for Buakai's wounds, no autopsy report was
available. But Dr. Stevenson talked with a

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number of family members about his injuries.
And they said that he had two wounds on his

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head from being shot. His wife remembered that
one doctor who examined Buakai's body said

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that the entrance wound was the one on the back
of his head because it was much smaller than

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the wound on his forehead. that would have been
the exit wound. These match Chenai's birthmarks,

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a small circular one on the back of his head
and a larger, more irregular one on the front.

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They were both hairless and puckered. No one
photographed them until Chenai was 11 and a

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half years old. So determining exactly where
they were on his head at birth is difficult.

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In the photographs, the larger one is on the
left toward the top of his head in front, but

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witnesses said that it had been lower on his
forehead when he was younger. In this case,

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a number of witnesses stated that a young child
with birthmarks that matched the entrance and

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exit wounds on the deceased man had knowledge
about that man's life that he seemingly could

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not have attained through normal means. And
while he was able to pass tests that the man's

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family had constructed for him. Wow. That's
a really good one. It's got the birthmarks.

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It's got the past life statements. One thing
that's missing is the dreams. What were they

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called? The announcing dreams. Announcing dreams.
Yeah. But he also has the behavior, too, because

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of asking the daughters to address him as father.
And if they wouldn't, he wouldn't talk to them,

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which means it was like an emotional thing for
him. Right, so that's strange behavior for

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a young child. Yeah, I mean that's much more
than just the vague remembrance of events because,

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right, you have a monkey type on a typewriter
eventually it's going to write Shakespeare.

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00:28:38,507 --> 00:28:47,512
Shakespeare, yeah. But... Give it enough time.
Give it enough time, yeah. Enough repeats of

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the universe. I mean the universe might... die
a thermal heat death before a chimpanzee would

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actually write? I don't know. Shakespeare? I
say we find out.

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Cool. Well, we're real close to a break here.
That's a good story to start us off. Yeah.

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It's a strong one. It's definitely a strong
one. Yeah, you got the statements. Compared

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to the ones that we've heard. You got the birthmarks.
You got multiple witnesses. You got tests.

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You got emotional and behavioral stuff. Yeah,
I mean, it's just what really I want to like

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hear about and know about is the in-between
time. There are a couple in here that address

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that. Perfect. Yeah. Alright, well cool. Let's
take a little break. Yeah. And we'll come back

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and we'll get into some more reincarnation part
two. Heck yeah! See you in the future. Bye-bye!

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We go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we
go, we go. Welcome back to Duality Check. From

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00:31:32,892 --> 00:31:39,677
the past. I need to make some like duality check
sound effects. Yeah. Like record my voice saying

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it, put some effects on it, throw some scratching
or some like weird echoes. Duality check. Combo-de-cha.

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00:31:46,942 --> 00:31:51,005
Yeah, we need to get you hooked up to that stream
deck. I'll send it home with you and you can

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00:31:51,025 --> 00:31:59,822
go mess with it. Okay. You wanna do that? Sure.
So, what are you drinking there buddy? Oh yeah.

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So I've got a New Belgium Voodoo Ranger Imperial
IPA. It's pretty classic. I'm sure anybody

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in the IPA realm has tried it. That's one of
the big boys. The big corporate guys. I think

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00:32:14,632 --> 00:32:16,693
New Belgium... Who are they owned by?

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00:32:21,227 --> 00:32:29,776
They're owned by one of the big, like Coors
or Budd or something. Oh really? I'm sure they

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00:32:29,836 --> 00:32:36,342
are. I'm sure it says on here. Nope, it doesn't.
So it's a 9% Imperial IPA. It's a pretty classic

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00:32:36,442 --> 00:32:42,849
IPA. Nothing hazy this time. I love my hazies
though. How is it? Is it pretty hoppy?

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Not extremely, but it's got a nice hoppy aftertaste.
Yeah, yeah. Which is nice. But the initial

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00:32:56,439 --> 00:33:05,644
is pretty crisp. It's not too, not like malty
or anything. Like there's nothing, nothing

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grazy on the intake, but the nice hoppiness
on the outside. Sweet. Yeah, it's pretty good.

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I got it in my sleeve, my Yeti can sleeve. I
gotta set the record straight on the last episode.

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What'd you say? In the intro, we were talking
about Ian Stevenson, and I was introducing

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00:33:30,528 --> 00:33:36,790
him. Right, right, right. I had confused him
with someone else, and it's chat GBT's fault.

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So do you remember our AI episode when I was
trying to think of the doctor or that book

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00:33:44,272 --> 00:33:54,176
that I read about? About? near-death experiences.
Yeah. And I was describing how the author had

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a... A certain experience. Yeah, how he had
a near-death experience. It gave you the wrong

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00:34:00,139 --> 00:34:05,562
name? It did. It gave me Ian Stevenson, or at
least that's what I remember it as. Maybe it's

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00:34:05,582 --> 00:34:11,244
wrong. Go back and listen. I can go back and
listen. But I remember it giving me the name

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00:34:11,364 --> 00:34:17,993
Ian Stevenson, which is actually... the wrong
name. That book was written by Eben Alexander,

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not Ian Stevenson. So Nick's the whole part
of my intro with Ian Stevenson saying that

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00:34:25,721 --> 00:34:32,087
he got into the topic by having a near-death
experience. That's not true. That is me conflating

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00:34:32,127 --> 00:34:36,692
him with someone else. And I blame Chad GBT,
which means I have to blame myself because

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00:34:36,812 --> 00:34:44,604
I believed it. So what is Ian Stevenson's real
intro then? What's his real backstory? His

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00:34:44,684 --> 00:34:54,129
real, I should have looked that up, but I still
didn't. But his, I do know that he was the

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00:34:54,169 --> 00:35:00,652
youngest person ever to become like the chair
of this psychology department at the university

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00:35:00,672 --> 00:35:08,124
he worked at. Okay, okay. And he essentially.
gave that up later on in order to build his

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00:35:08,284 --> 00:35:16,714
own institute in the University of West Virginia.
I think it's West Virginia. Anyway, they built

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00:35:16,734 --> 00:35:23,436
their own institute there to study these sorts
of topics like reincarnation and All of these,

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00:35:23,456 --> 00:35:28,577
uh, it's like a sub less accepted more parapsychology
trying to investigate. It's his own. It's his

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00:35:28,677 --> 00:35:33,118
own university Or is it like a sub? It's part
of a university, but it but he's got his own

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00:35:33,138 --> 00:35:42,921
department Institution within it that got funding
for the reincarnation research nice Anyway,

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00:35:43,441 --> 00:35:49,208
so That so the person that wrote the near-death
experience books was a different person is

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00:35:49,228 --> 00:35:53,310
a different person But we're that's the one
where you wanted to you wanted to cover next.

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00:35:53,670 --> 00:36:00,693
I well, I don't know about next I do want to
cover it. Does ian stevenson still have uh

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00:36:01,058 --> 00:36:04,638
another book that you wanted to cover. I knew
you were talking about him being the author

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00:36:04,678 --> 00:36:09,700
of the next one. No, so this book, Life Before
Life, that we've been covering, this is by

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00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:17,302
Jim B. Tucker, who is essentially Ian Stephenson's,
I don't think student is the right word, but

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00:36:17,382 --> 00:36:21,823
like his protege. Yeah, he followed him around,
was with him on a lot of these. They did a

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00:36:21,863 --> 00:36:27,685
bunch of the research together. And now that
Ian Stephenson, who actually has passed, I

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00:36:27,705 --> 00:36:35,626
believe back in like 07 or 08 or something like
that. So he's written this collection of all

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00:36:35,666 --> 00:36:41,613
the data and everything. Yeah, but Ian Stevenson
does have several books on reincarnation. Oh,

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00:36:41,653 --> 00:36:46,818
he has his own books too. And I linked all those
on the previous episode and they'll be linked

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00:36:46,879 --> 00:36:51,343
on this episode as well. Perfect. We'll have
to get into one of those later too. He's got

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00:36:51,363 --> 00:36:57,216
a whole bunch of them. He's got... A couple
versions of reincarnation in biology. One of

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00:36:57,236 --> 00:37:05,782
those is like a big giant two volume scientific
tome That is just a giant collection of the

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00:37:05,802 --> 00:37:13,247
cases published nice which would actually that's
Yeah, just so I have a whole bunch of stories

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00:37:13,367 --> 00:37:19,131
I can look from yeah and just like Cuz it's
cool reading the book where he knows all the

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00:37:19,171 --> 00:37:26,196
case files and he tells what you what he's found
true by researching them. But it would be nice

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00:37:26,236 --> 00:37:33,302
to go and read some of the actual case files
myself. Yeah. And do research on it if you

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00:37:33,322 --> 00:37:38,126
want. I'm sure there's some of them where you
can do your own backstory stuff, confirm some

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00:37:38,147 --> 00:37:47,394
of the information. But let's get into that
next case. Let's do it. The case of Nietzsche.

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00:37:51,042 --> 00:37:56,827
Kieran, I cannot pronounce that word. I mean,
A plus from my book. There are so many. A plus.

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00:37:56,847 --> 00:38:03,133
Yeah. Great job. But from the audio book, I
remember him pronouncing the first name as

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00:38:03,233 --> 00:38:10,300
Nechip. So if that's not right, it's the audio
book's fault. Yep. Anyway, another case from

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00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:19,771
reincarnation in biology is that of Nechip from
Turkey. At the time of his birth, he was noted

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00:38:19,811 --> 00:38:26,236
to have a number of birth marks on his head,
face, and trunk. His parents initially named

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00:38:26,276 --> 00:38:32,720
him Malik, but three days after his birth, his
mother had a dream in which her baby told her

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that he was called Nichip. When the boy became
old enough to speak, he insisted that his name

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00:38:40,445 --> 00:38:46,057
was really Nichip. and refused to answer to
anything else. So his parents eventually agreed

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00:38:46,097 --> 00:38:51,942
to call him Nietzsche. Nice. Yeah. Changed his
own name. Love it. Nietzsche was slow in speaking

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00:38:52,062 --> 00:38:56,686
and late in speaking about a previous life.
But when he was six years old, he began saying

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00:38:56,726 --> 00:39:04,310
that he had children. He gradually, um, gave
other details, including the fact that he had

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00:39:04,350 --> 00:39:13,693
been stabbed repeatedly. He said he had not
lived in the city of Merson 50 miles from the

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00:39:13,713 --> 00:39:19,095
family's home. The family did not immediately
take him there because of their lack of means

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00:39:19,895 --> 00:39:25,437
as well as their lack of interest in what he
was saying. When Nietzsche was 12 years old,

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00:39:25,897 --> 00:39:33,577
his mother took him to a town near Merson. to
visit her father and his wife, whom neither

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00:39:35,118 --> 00:39:43,684
Nietzsche nor his mother had met before. When
Nietzsche did meet her, he said that she was

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00:39:43,764 --> 00:39:50,208
now his real grandmother after being only like
a grandmother to him in the past. He told her

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00:39:50,268 --> 00:39:56,392
about his memories of a previous life, and she
confirmed that they were true. She had previously

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00:39:56,452 --> 00:40:03,734
lived in Mersenne. where she was known as grandmother.
A neighbor of hers there named Nechip Budak

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00:40:04,295 --> 00:40:11,561
had been stabbed and killed shortly before the
child Nechip was born. Nechip's grandfather

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00:40:11,602 --> 00:40:16,706
then took him to Merson where he recognized
a number of Nechip Budak's family members.

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00:40:17,146 --> 00:40:22,238
He identified two items that had belonged to
Nechip Budak. And he correctly said that Nechip

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00:40:22,258 --> 00:40:29,322
had only or had once cut his wife on her leg
with a knife during an argument. The boy had

347
00:40:29,382 --> 00:40:34,505
not seen the widow's legs, of course, but a
woman in Dr. Stevenson's group examined them

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00:40:34,545 --> 00:40:40,148
and confirmed that she did that she had a scar
on her thigh. And she said her husband had

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00:40:40,268 --> 00:40:47,492
given it to her. She is Dr. Stevenson was able
to obtain a copy of Nechip Boudak's autopsy

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00:40:47,552 --> 00:40:55,265
report, and he found that Nechip, the boy had
three birthmarks, one that his family had noted

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00:40:55,505 --> 00:41:01,609
at his birth that were still visible when Dr.
Stevenson examined him at age 13 that matched

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00:41:01,669 --> 00:41:09,054
wounds described in the autopsy report. In addition,
Nichip had previously had three birthmarks

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00:41:09,094 --> 00:41:15,938
that his family noted at birth that were no
longer visible at age 13 that matched the wounds

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00:41:15,979 --> 00:41:22,422
in the report Dr. Stevenson found. Also found
two birth two marks on Nechip that corresponded

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00:41:22,462 --> 00:41:28,625
to wounds in the report, but his parents had
not noticed these marks before. Lastly, the

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00:41:28,725 --> 00:41:33,487
autopsy described a number of wounds on the
left arm of Nechip Budok that did not match

357
00:41:33,547 --> 00:41:40,730
any birth marks on Nechip the boy. In summary,
Nechip had up to eight birth marks that matched

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00:41:40,810 --> 00:41:47,553
documented wounds on Nechip Budok who was killed
50 miles away. He also gave correct details.

359
00:41:48,014 --> 00:41:57,354
about Nietzsche Boudoc's life and recognized
his family members. Whoa. So that's another

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00:41:57,374 --> 00:42:03,396
one with multiple birthmarks. And he sort of,
if I remember correctly, he sort of takes this

361
00:42:03,457 --> 00:42:12,480
moment to talk about the phenomenon of birthmarks
because it's interesting that he matched a

362
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:22,905
bunch of the original knee chip wounds, but
not all of them, right? So they said that he

363
00:42:22,945 --> 00:42:29,823
had multiple that. did match, but then he, that
because Nietzsche was stabbed, he also had

364
00:42:29,863 --> 00:42:36,065
a bunch of wounds on his arm, like self-defense
wounds. And none of those turned into birthmarks.

365
00:42:36,525 --> 00:42:43,207
The only thing I can think of is there seems
to be a correlation between the pain and fear

366
00:42:43,987 --> 00:42:51,649
of what happened to you in your death, correlating
into the next life. And it seems like there's

367
00:42:51,709 --> 00:43:01,312
some kind of mechanism that allows for the memory
of it to be like there's, it seems like there's,

368
00:43:01,472 --> 00:43:07,417
there might be some kind of structure to the
reincarnation thing, right? So if you die peacefully

369
00:43:07,457 --> 00:43:13,903
in your sleep or if you die an old person, right.
And you know, it's coming, you accept it. You

370
00:43:13,923 --> 00:43:22,438
have a different path on the reincarnation.
And if you die in a sudden way or an unexpected

371
00:43:22,478 --> 00:43:29,386
way in fear and pain, you have a different path.
And your path is more streamlined and it's

372
00:43:29,446 --> 00:43:39,096
also more painful and you remember more of it.
And when you are reincarnated, the marks specifically

373
00:43:39,116 --> 00:43:45,897
that you were talking about, If you're killed,
right, the killing blow will probably be the

374
00:43:45,917 --> 00:43:52,362
most painful. And then the ones most near to
that or the ones that were most recent to that

375
00:43:52,422 --> 00:43:56,146
are probably going to be the most painful, but
the cuts on your arm, you probably wouldn't

376
00:43:56,166 --> 00:44:02,551
even feel. Right. And that's kind of... The
killing blows are the birthmarks, the ones

377
00:44:02,571 --> 00:44:07,315
that you feel, the ones that you carry over
and the ones on your arms may not be... Maybe

378
00:44:07,335 --> 00:44:13,144
the killing blows are that way, but... You have
to think about it this way too, because whatever

379
00:44:13,184 --> 00:44:18,029
is that last final killing blow, it would depend
on what state you're in. Are you conscious

380
00:44:18,169 --> 00:44:24,794
of it? Are you still fully aware? Can you fully
feel that killing blow? Right, that's why there's

381
00:44:24,855 --> 00:44:33,822
a variable. Yeah, if you're being assaulted
by a knife and someone sneaks up to you, gets

382
00:44:33,842 --> 00:44:39,878
a stab, you turn around trying to defend yourself.
all of a sudden your adrenaline is through

383
00:44:39,898 --> 00:44:46,520
the roof and you're not going to feel everything.
So yeah, those self-defense wounds on the arm,

384
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:54,662
maybe they didn't even register consciously
because of the adrenaline state. And then it's

385
00:44:54,742 --> 00:45:01,925
only the ones that you're conscious of that
you actually are concerned with. Those are

386
00:45:01,965 --> 00:45:07,547
the ones that maybe imprint onto your consciousness.
which is the piece that survives after death,

387
00:45:07,647 --> 00:45:15,232
right? So maybe the consciousness just brings
with it whatever wounds are ones that affected

388
00:45:15,272 --> 00:45:17,994
the consciousness. If there are some wounds
that don't affect you. Which are likely the

389
00:45:18,094 --> 00:45:25,439
ones that it just registered. No matter what
order the blows happen, the ones that registered

390
00:45:25,499 --> 00:45:30,963
are gonna be the ones that imprinted, right?
So the defensive wounds are gonna be the ones

391
00:45:30,983 --> 00:45:37,047
that you're in the fight mode of survival. and
you're just trying to survive. And what you're

392
00:45:37,067 --> 00:45:41,470
doing is protecting your core with your limbs.
You're not gonna feel anything in your limbs

393
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:46,053
at that moment. Everything you're gonna feel
is gonna be in your core and in your head.

394
00:45:46,693 --> 00:45:50,576
That's where you're gonna feel the most. And
if you've ever been in a moment where your

395
00:45:50,756 --> 00:45:56,900
fight or flight has kicked in, you know that
that's true. You remember what your body feels

396
00:45:56,940 --> 00:46:03,545
like, what your hair feels like. Like you actually
have the feeling of like goosebumps all over

397
00:46:04,025 --> 00:46:10,509
your... not everything but your extremities,
right? You feel it in your chest and you feel

398
00:46:10,529 --> 00:46:17,593
your heartbeat, you know the RPMs, you know,
in a feeling sense. You know how fast your

399
00:46:17,633 --> 00:46:21,975
heart was beating, you know, like you remember
those things, but you're not gonna remember

400
00:46:22,035 --> 00:46:27,058
like the little cut. You get at the end of that,
those are the last things, like the little

401
00:46:27,098 --> 00:46:31,141
cut on your finger or your hand or whatever,
like those are the things that you just don't

402
00:46:31,161 --> 00:46:36,432
care about, cause it's not. gonna affect you
in a sense. Well, and you may not have even

403
00:46:36,472 --> 00:46:41,596
known it was there at the point. Yeah. Right.
Like. It's not till after that you might reassess

404
00:46:41,636 --> 00:46:44,678
and start looking at some things. I've had the
experience where I've been in some sort of

405
00:46:44,718 --> 00:46:49,522
adrenaline heightened state and gotten injured.
And then it's not till like later when you

406
00:46:49,562 --> 00:46:55,927
calm down that you're like, oh, ow. Yeah. I
got this little, what the? Yeah. I've got this

407
00:46:56,007 --> 00:47:01,827
raspberry. You know what's funny is I used to...
People who know me who are listening, they'll

408
00:47:01,847 --> 00:47:08,171
know this story. We used to play mini baseball
in our cul-de-sac we grew up in. And I used

409
00:47:08,191 --> 00:47:14,055
to slide on the concrete. Because I was so,
I just wanted to be so competitive that I wanted

410
00:47:14,095 --> 00:47:18,758
to make it to every base. You just gave me goosebumps.
And I would wear jeans. And mom and dad had

411
00:47:18,778 --> 00:47:25,326
to buy me so many jeans growing up. Because
I would just slide and dive and... just go

412
00:47:25,366 --> 00:47:29,987
for it because I wanted to be safe and I wanted
to do it for the team, you know, whatever.

413
00:47:30,027 --> 00:47:36,189
On the street, concrete. On the concrete, asphalt,
like just sliding in jeans and it would hurt

414
00:47:36,369 --> 00:47:40,210
but I would get at the end, like I didn't feel
it, like I was just like, let's keep going.

415
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:44,251
Like I didn't care, didn't even look at it,
did nothing. But once the game is over. The

416
00:47:44,291 --> 00:47:48,692
adrenaline's gone, like all of that is not pumping
and then you're like sitting in your bed like

417
00:47:48,732 --> 00:47:54,626
after a shower and you're like, oh god damn,
that hurts. Yeah. You know, it's just a fat

418
00:47:54,706 --> 00:48:02,270
raspberry on your chin or your knee or something.
So you can sort of construct like an alternate

419
00:48:03,491 --> 00:48:10,026
thought experiment for this knee chip case.
Like, let's say he was assaulted and severely

420
00:48:10,066 --> 00:48:17,050
wounded but survived, right? And then say dies
a year later, hit by a bus or something, right?

421
00:48:17,070 --> 00:48:22,714
So it's still unexpected the way he dies, but
he has a year with those injuries from being

422
00:48:22,754 --> 00:48:29,874
stabbed, right? Now at that point, when he dies
later, Because the bus thing may happen so

423
00:48:29,994 --> 00:48:35,056
instantly, he may not carry a birthmark from
that. But he may carry birthmarks, because

424
00:48:35,776 --> 00:48:40,858
having a year after the attack, now all of a
sudden all the arm wounds and their healing

425
00:48:40,978 --> 00:48:46,980
may have actually registered with his consciousness.
And in that case, you could see how maybe the

426
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:53,574
child born later would have had birthmarks that
matched the arms. But when you... are being

427
00:48:53,594 --> 00:48:57,995
attacked and you die in that adrenaline state,
you didn't have a chance to feel everything.

428
00:48:58,015 --> 00:49:03,557
Right, right, right. All of those wounds. Yeah,
so that's why there's like a spectrum of, like

429
00:49:03,857 --> 00:49:08,338
you gotta understand what happened. If you can
actually follow the evidence and follow the

430
00:49:08,378 --> 00:49:14,580
story to understand who the person was before
and what happened and all the evidence. Like

431
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,921
that's why nowadays it's gonna be exciting because
a lot of these cases are gonna come to the

432
00:49:19,761 --> 00:49:26,061
forefront. in a sense of we have the technology
to actually track this data and to like, to

433
00:49:26,141 --> 00:49:35,073
actually, sure we like, we've had one-off cases
in the past, but that was just like a small

434
00:49:35,114 --> 00:49:42,532
fraction of what was actually happening potentially.
And now we have the possibility to really get

435
00:49:42,692 --> 00:49:51,759
aggregate data, get a full spectrum of people's
experiences and make it not so open to it.

436
00:49:51,859 --> 00:50:02,486
They need to be open to the idea of it and not
be fearful of it. With Dora the Edie, the reincarnation

437
00:50:02,506 --> 00:50:09,507
story we talked about previously, that's a lifelong
thing. was imprinted for their whole next life.

438
00:50:09,587 --> 00:50:14,309
Like they understood and like grew and like
gained knowledge of their previous life and

439
00:50:14,349 --> 00:50:21,814
stuff. But that's a one-off. Like as far as
the cases we've been talking about, usually

440
00:50:21,854 --> 00:50:27,997
they still forget by the time they're five or
six, they forget about all of it. It's usually

441
00:50:28,037 --> 00:50:34,901
just within that two or three years of timeframe
between their two or their three and six years

442
00:50:35,041 --> 00:50:41,551
old, right? like when they have the time to
be able to like access that information. At

443
00:50:41,591 --> 00:50:46,392
least that's the most common time frame. That's
the most common time frame. Right. But the

444
00:50:46,432 --> 00:50:52,334
Dorothy Edies are much more farther out there.
Right. Yeah. It does happen. So I what I was

445
00:50:52,374 --> 00:50:57,015
just saying, sorry, I just what I was just saying
is like, I want to like, I would hope to like

446
00:50:57,136 --> 00:51:02,837
normalize this, like in the sense of like, if,
if like me and Rachel were to talk to our children

447
00:51:03,577 --> 00:51:09,325
about. their past lives and if they say some
funny stuff, like, let's report that. And like

448
00:51:09,445 --> 00:51:13,348
that might be part of an aggregate data, like
where we can actually confirm some of the stuff.

449
00:51:14,028 --> 00:51:20,312
Like in an alternate timeline where you're not
a nerd on all these topics. And if why it got

450
00:51:20,392 --> 00:51:26,356
old enough and said something to you like, Oh
daddy, I used to be this person. Like you might

451
00:51:26,396 --> 00:51:30,819
be like, Oh, that's cool. It's a funny story.
Yeah. How many mushrooms did you take? Right.

452
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,836
But like. Now, obviously, since you're aware
of it, you like if he says some weird stuff

453
00:51:37,856 --> 00:51:46,182
like that, like you'll have content interests.
Yeah. So it would be good for people to at

454
00:51:46,222 --> 00:51:51,105
least be aware. And I think a lot of people
are at least aware of the concept. Sure. But

455
00:51:51,445 --> 00:51:55,788
people aren't aware of the features. Oh, right.
What it might look like and what it might sound

456
00:51:55,808 --> 00:52:01,868
like. Right. That's why it's good and hopefully
people will share this. Like just by knowing

457
00:52:02,008 --> 00:52:08,668
that the most common case is a child. between
three and six, three and seven. Saying certain

458
00:52:08,688 --> 00:52:13,651
statements. Making statements. Maybe having
emotions. Investigate it a little bit. Right.

459
00:52:13,711 --> 00:52:19,496
Birthmarks. As long as you know that these are
all part of it, then, and you don't just know

460
00:52:19,536 --> 00:52:25,480
the word, then you can be a little more prepared
for if something like that happens in your

461
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:35,264
life. We need to talk to Sawyer about his heart-shaped
birthmark he had. Well, I would let him bring

462
00:52:35,304 --> 00:52:42,011
something up, but document the birthmark. We
know it. We're definitely. You should document

463
00:52:42,031 --> 00:52:45,555
it while he's young, because it could change
and go away. It's already starting to change

464
00:52:45,575 --> 00:52:52,483
a little bit. When he was first born, it was
pretty prominent. Very prominent. And it's

465
00:52:52,523 --> 00:52:59,519
still pretty prominent, but. different. It's
definitely changed its shape. Yeah. Take a

466
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:04,860
photo of it if you don't have one already. Yeah.
I think we have one of it originally because

467
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:13,043
we took a lot of pictures. Yeah. It's funny.
I saw that meme of my parents in 1990 took

468
00:53:13,223 --> 00:53:22,125
one photo of me between 1990 and 1996. I took
375 photos of my child between 8 a.m. and 9

469
00:53:22,525 --> 00:53:22,645
a.m.

470
00:53:28,136 --> 00:53:35,580
It's so true. It is very true. All right, you
ready for the next case? Let's go. OK. This

471
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:43,765
is the case of Indika Ishwara. Indika Ishwara,
an identical twin, was born in Sri Lanka in

472
00:53:43,805 --> 00:53:50,468
1972. His brother talked about a previous life
at an early age, and I will discuss that in

473
00:53:50,488 --> 00:53:56,790
chapter 6. When Ndika was three years old, he
also began talking about one. He said he was

474
00:53:56,830 --> 00:54:07,975
from Balipataya, a town nearly 30 miles away
from his hometown. He talked about his previous

475
00:54:08,015 --> 00:54:15,963
parents. He did not give their names, but referred
to them as his Ambalang. mother and Ambala

476
00:54:16,004 --> 00:54:24,113
Gauda father. He said that he attended a big
school in Ambala Gauda and the larger town

477
00:54:24,253 --> 00:54:34,925
near to Bali Pattaya and that he traveled there
by train. He said that he was called Baby Mahataya.

478
00:54:35,774 --> 00:54:43,818
Mahataya means master or boss in Sinhalese and
baby Mata haya was a fairly common nickname

479
00:54:43,858 --> 00:54:55,545
in Sri Lanka. He claimed he had an older sister
named Malik Khan the. You're nailing the. Thank

480
00:54:55,585 --> 00:55:02,329
you. Just keep going. With whom he had bicycled.
He describes an uncle named Prima sorry as

481
00:55:02,389 --> 00:55:10,850
well as a. Mudalali Bapa. Mudalali means an
individual with a substantial business, and

482
00:55:10,930 --> 00:55:20,097
Bapa means a paternal uncle. So, yeah, so his
business owner uncle. He mentioned that the

483
00:55:20,117 --> 00:55:27,030
family had a calf and a dog and said that a
car and a truck were at the home. In addition,

484
00:55:27,110 --> 00:55:32,077
he talked of going with his sister to the temple
where he said a red curtain hung in front of

485
00:55:32,117 --> 00:55:38,925
the Buddha image. He said that his previous
father wore trousers, his own father wore a

486
00:55:38,965 --> 00:55:46,632
sarong, his previous home... where a wedding
had taken place had electricity, his family's

487
00:55:46,652 --> 00:55:53,176
home did not. He described his previous mother
as being darker, taller, and fatter than his

488
00:55:53,236 --> 00:56:00,601
present one. He also said that he had gone to
school through the fourth grade and had a classmate

489
00:56:00,661 --> 00:56:09,122
named Sipali. Indika's family did not know anyone
who lived in Ambalangoda. His father had a

490
00:56:09,182 --> 00:56:13,905
friend who worked there, and he asked the friend
to try and locate the previous personality's

491
00:56:13,945 --> 00:56:21,609
family based on what Indica said. The friend
quickly located a family in Balapithaya who

492
00:56:21,729 --> 00:56:30,013
seemed to fit Indica's statements. Their oldest
son, Darshana, had died at 10 of viral encephalitis,

493
00:56:30,554 --> 00:56:39,952
four years after Indica was born. Oh, before
Indica was born. The friend spoke with Darshana's

494
00:56:40,012 --> 00:56:47,403
mother about Indika. Since Darshana's father
was away at the time, when the father learned

495
00:56:47,423 --> 00:56:53,892
what Indika had been saying, he was quite interested,
and he soon made an unannounced trip to Indika's

496
00:56:53,912 --> 00:56:58,979
hometown. He went to the shop of Indika's father
while he was waiting there for someone to take

497
00:56:59,020 --> 00:57:05,163
him to the family's home. An employee asked
him if he had a daughter named Malkanthi and

498
00:57:05,183 --> 00:57:13,607
a son named Mahatmaya. Since Indika had been
reporting these things, he did. And he then

499
00:57:13,647 --> 00:57:19,211
went to the family's home and met Indika, who
was not four years old. People thought that

500
00:57:19,291 --> 00:57:25,863
Ndika recognized him because even though he
did not call him by name directly, he said

501
00:57:25,903 --> 00:57:33,575
to his mother, father has come. Shortly after
that various men- members of Darshanas family

502
00:57:33,635 --> 00:57:39,759
made two trips to see Indika. Indika was thought
to recognize several of them, but their interactions

503
00:57:39,799 --> 00:57:45,402
occurred in uncontrolled conditions with a lot
of people around. Dr. Stevenson's longtime

504
00:57:45,422 --> 00:57:53,708
associate in Sri Lanka, Godwin Samaravarantte,
later accompanied Indika to

505
00:57:57,758 --> 00:58:04,728
Ambalangoda. But Indika did not say anything
that suggested that he recognized anything

506
00:58:04,768 --> 00:58:13,320
he saw. At that point, most of Darshanas family
members had already met Indika, but Mr. Samararantey

507
00:58:14,154 --> 00:58:20,256
was able to set up controlled tests to see if
Andika could recognize an additional uncle

508
00:58:20,356 --> 00:58:26,619
and cousin. He did not. On his second visit
to Darshana's family, he appeared to be looking

509
00:58:26,659 --> 00:58:32,342
for something outside a house in the family's
compound. He discovered what he had been looking

510
00:58:32,362 --> 00:58:38,885
for and pointed out Darshana's name and the
date, 1965, that had been scratched, presumably

511
00:58:38,925 --> 00:58:44,568
by Darshana in the wall of a concrete drain
when the concrete was still wet. No one in

512
00:58:45,449 --> 00:58:51,354
Darshan's family knew about this or had even
noticed the writing until Indica pointed it

513
00:58:51,434 --> 00:59:01,342
out to them. Mr. Samarantte, Dr. Stevenson's
associate, had learned of the case soon after

514
00:59:01,382 --> 00:59:06,607
it developed, and he conducted interviews with
Indica's parents three weeks after the initial

515
00:59:06,627 --> 00:59:12,222
meeting between Indica and Darshan's family.
So this is like pretty freshly investigated,

516
00:59:12,282 --> 00:59:23,646
right? As it's happening. This is 19. This is
in the 70s, I believe. Yeah, 72. Well, the

517
00:59:24,006 --> 00:59:30,068
previous personality supposedly died in like
the mid-60s. 65. Yeah, because it said five

518
00:59:30,088 --> 00:59:37,726
years before. Yeah, 1965 or something like that.
Yeah, he conducted interviews. And with Darshanas

519
00:59:37,766 --> 00:59:42,928
father a week later after that, he had another
interview. All of Indika's statements about

520
00:59:42,968 --> 00:59:47,830
the previous life in these pages come from those
initial interviews that occurred very soon

521
00:59:47,930 --> 00:59:54,132
after the families first met. The memory that
Darshanas father had of hearing the two names

522
00:59:54,172 --> 01:00:00,234
at the shop of Indika's father seems particularly
striking. And I think we must conclude that

523
01:00:00,294 --> 01:00:06,276
Endika gave those names before the families
ever met. Right, so he's saying, because of

524
01:00:06,296 --> 01:00:12,718
the fact that some person other than Endika
or his family, while Darshanah's father was

525
01:00:12,858 --> 01:00:18,639
at their shop waiting to meet the family and
go to their home, some other person asked him

526
01:00:18,679 --> 01:00:24,601
about those names and he confirmed it to them.
Right, so like that makes it a little more...

527
01:00:25,938 --> 01:00:33,481
likely that it was not like suggestion or anything
like that. That's like, it's not as good as

528
01:00:33,541 --> 01:00:38,003
like documentation and writing down the child's
statements before the families meet, but like,

529
01:00:38,143 --> 01:00:43,386
it's kind of like a next best thing, right?
Because at least it is evidence that those

530
01:00:43,426 --> 01:00:48,848
statements were made before the two families
met, which reduces the likelihood that these

531
01:00:48,868 --> 01:00:54,971
two families are somehow colluding to make this
story. Right. So, I mean, yeah, unless they

532
01:00:55,051 --> 01:01:01,716
met wave previous to that. Right, right. But,
you know. But if you're that type of skeptic

533
01:01:01,756 --> 01:01:09,861
that your go-to is fraud in every one of these
cases, then I don't know how to help you. It

534
01:01:09,921 --> 01:01:15,005
just doesn't seem super likely to me. You just
won't believe any of it. That's all. Yeah.

535
01:01:16,766 --> 01:01:21,469
Anything else on that one, on that story? Yeah.
So almost all the statements that Ndika made,

536
01:01:22,146 --> 01:01:27,368
proved to be correct for the life of Darshana.
Darshana's family did live in Balapatthaya

537
01:01:27,908 --> 01:01:34,911
and he attended a school in Amalangoda. Darshana
was called Baby Mataya as a nickname. His older

538
01:01:34,971 --> 01:01:44,355
sister was named Malkanti and they did bicycle
together. One of his uncles was named Prumasiri.

539
01:01:44,635 --> 01:01:51,450
His full name was Sangama Prumasiri Desilva
and his... A paternal uncle was a contractor

540
01:01:51,490 --> 01:01:58,894
and a timber merchant, thus a mudalali. Darshanu's
family had a car and a dog, though they did

541
01:01:58,934 --> 01:02:06,017
not own a truck. One was parked in the family's
compound. No, that's all you need. Yeah. Likewise,

542
01:02:06,057 --> 01:02:12,380
the family did not own a car, but other people
brought their calves to graze on the grass

543
01:02:12,420 --> 01:02:19,884
at the family's compound, so cars would be there.
The temple that Ndika's family attended had

544
01:02:19,924 --> 01:02:25,209
a white curtain in front of its image of Buddha,
while the one that Darshana's family attended

545
01:02:25,229 --> 01:02:31,996
had a red one. Darshana's father did wear trousers,
and the family's home did have electricity,

546
01:02:32,036 --> 01:02:38,552
though Darshana may not have may not have witnessed
a wedding directly in the family's home, several

547
01:02:38,572 --> 01:02:44,915
had taken place nearby, including one in a neighbor's
house a few weeks before Darshanah died. Which

548
01:02:44,955 --> 01:02:49,617
probably looked a lot like his own house. Right.
Darshanah had fallen from a wall during the

549
01:02:49,637 --> 01:02:55,199
wedding, and his doctors later thought that
he might have sustained a head injury, then

550
01:02:55,459 --> 01:03:02,403
that was related to a subsequent encephalitis.
And Indika's description of Darshanah's mother

551
01:03:02,423 --> 01:03:08,526
was accurate. Attended to school through grade
four. He was just starting grade five when

552
01:03:08,546 --> 01:03:14,188
he became ill As far as Dar Shana's family and
one of his classmates could recall he did not

553
01:03:15,369 --> 01:03:22,572
Have a class name Sipali How Andika could possibly
have known all these details about an ordinary

554
01:03:22,632 --> 01:03:28,555
boy who died in another village almost 30 miles
away It's certainly worth wondering about sure

555
01:03:28,635 --> 01:03:34,814
in addition. He had a nasal polyp his parents
noticed when he was a year old Though nasal

556
01:03:34,854 --> 01:03:42,841
polyps are not unusual in later ages, they are
quite rare in infancy, and Indica's identical

557
01:03:42,881 --> 01:03:48,346
twin did not have one. So why did Indica have
one? If we accept the possibility that some

558
01:03:48,406 --> 01:03:55,512
birthmarks and defects may arise through the
process of reincarnation, but one possibility

559
01:03:55,532 --> 01:04:04,527
to consider is that since Darshana, the previous
personality, had been both nasal oxygen and

560
01:04:04,607 --> 01:04:13,798
natal feeding tube during his illness, an irritation
from one of those could have produced the subsequent

561
01:04:13,838 --> 01:04:21,950
polyp in Endika. The nasal polyp, though not
as dramatic as some of the usual deformities

562
01:04:21,990 --> 01:04:29,118
in reincarnation biology, is rare and has no
known cause. And the explanation that it somehow

563
01:04:29,238 --> 01:04:35,625
mirrored irritation from the nasal tubes that
Darshana had in is consistent with the numerous

564
01:04:35,665 --> 01:04:42,094
statements that Indika made that were correct
for Darshana's life. I think the nasal tube

565
01:04:42,174 --> 01:04:46,617
is interesting too, because if you recall in
the intro to the book we were talking about

566
01:04:46,957 --> 01:04:59,437
the common associated phenomena with reincarnation
and one of them was... was experimental birthmarks

567
01:04:59,738 --> 01:05:06,149
where you can just like put some ash on someone's
neck and they may be reborn with a birthmark.

568
01:05:07,070 --> 01:05:13,762
So if rubbing ash on someone's neck after they
died... can work to produce a birthmark. I

569
01:05:13,803 --> 01:05:20,746
don't see why being hospitalized with like tubes
in your nose couldn't necessarily do the same

570
01:05:20,786 --> 01:05:25,468
thing, yeah. Especially if it's traumatic for
you to experience that. Or if it's really irritating,

571
01:05:25,528 --> 01:05:30,190
like you're conscious, you're kind of out of
it and all you can feel is these freaking tubes

572
01:05:30,210 --> 01:05:35,673
in your nose that are bothering you. Like that
could imprint your consciousness enough. Yeah,

573
01:05:35,713 --> 01:05:36,193
definitely.

574
01:05:39,606 --> 01:05:47,011
That's another good one, though. There's a ton
of statements. There's birthmarks. There's

575
01:05:47,151 --> 01:05:55,717
a separation of the families in distance. There's,
I mean, a couple years went by. That one seems

576
01:05:55,777 --> 01:06:09,146
pretty unlikely to be fraudulent. Yeah, definitely
less likely. Yeah. I love these stories. You

577
01:06:09,166 --> 01:06:16,349
want another one? Oh, we're over. Yeah, let's
take a little break. OK. You're fading on me

578
01:06:16,409 --> 01:06:21,371
here, aren't you? I am fading. Yeah. Hopefully
we can make it through. I have to do at least

579
01:06:21,471 --> 01:06:30,946
one more segment. Very sure. No, just the. I'm
just tired, but anyway, these subjects do fascinate

580
01:06:30,986 --> 01:06:37,495
me and I love the idea of reincarnation and
I definitely want to look at it a little bit

581
01:06:37,515 --> 01:06:42,541
more. Yep. Well, we'll do that here in just
a bit. Be right back.

582
01:08:28,366 --> 01:08:35,529
is going to lose his beer privileges. He's getting
tired on me. Yeah, it definitely accentuates

583
01:08:35,589 --> 01:08:42,572
the tiredness for me this late hour. All right,
well, let's get into it and make the most of

584
01:08:42,592 --> 01:08:50,736
your energy. Let's do it. The case of Pernima
Eka-Naiake. Man, they're really testing me

585
01:08:50,756 --> 01:08:51,896
tonight. Dude, yeah. Doing great.

586
01:08:55,070 --> 01:09:01,933
Pernima is a girl in Sri Lanka who was born
with a group of light colored birthmarks over

587
01:09:01,953 --> 01:09:08,336
her left side of her chest and her lower ribs.
She began talking about a previous life when

588
01:09:08,356 --> 01:09:13,438
she was between 2.5 and 3 years old, but her
parents did not initially pay much attention

589
01:09:13,478 --> 01:09:22,154
to her statements. When she was 4 years old,
she saw a television program about... Talaniya

590
01:09:22,214 --> 01:09:29,640
Temple, a well-known temple that was 145 miles
away, and said that she recognized it. Later,

591
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:34,504
her father, a school principal, and her mother,
a teacher, took a group of students to the

592
01:09:35,204 --> 01:09:42,650
Kalaniya Temple. Purnima went with the group
on the visit. While there, she said that she

593
01:09:42,690 --> 01:09:47,746
had lived on the other side of the river that
flowed beside the temple grounds. By the time

594
01:09:47,766 --> 01:09:53,728
she was six, Pranima had made some 20 statements
about the previous life, describing a male

595
01:09:54,329 --> 01:10:01,112
incense maker who was killed in a traffic accident.
He had mentioned the names of two incense brands,

596
01:10:01,792 --> 01:10:10,096
or she had mentioned the names of two incense
brands, Ambiga and Getha, Pichaya, Pichacha.

597
01:10:10,116 --> 01:10:19,159
Yeah, that'll work. Her parents had never heard
of these, and when Dr. Haraldson later checked

598
01:10:19,499 --> 01:10:26,167
on the shops in their town, none of them sold
those brands of incense. A new teacher began

599
01:10:26,227 --> 01:10:33,373
working in Perneima's town. He spent his weekends
in Kelleniah where his wife lived. Perneima's

600
01:10:33,413 --> 01:10:39,699
father told him what Perneima had said and the
teacher decided to check in Kelleniah and to

601
01:10:39,739 --> 01:10:44,203
see if anyone had died there who matched her
statements. The teacher said that Perneima's

602
01:10:44,243 --> 01:10:46,745
father gave him the following items to check.

603
01:10:50,218 --> 01:10:58,707
Number one, she had, do we need to stop or they
good? Give it a sec. Can you give a sec? The

604
01:10:58,727 --> 01:10:59,828
babes are crying. Yeah.

605
01:11:04,650 --> 01:11:13,777
Yeah, so the teacher said that Purnima's father
gave him the following items to check. A, that

606
01:11:13,817 --> 01:11:18,981
she had lived on the other side of the river
from Kellenaya Temple. B, that she had made

607
01:11:19,101 --> 01:11:29,168
Ambiga and get a Pachaya incense sticks. C,
that she was selling incense sticks on a bicycle.

608
01:11:29,829 --> 01:11:39,991
And four. or that she was killed in an accident
with a big vehicle. He then went with his brother-in-law

609
01:11:40,011 --> 01:11:44,333
who did not believe in reincarnation to see
if a person matching those statements could

610
01:11:44,353 --> 01:11:50,937
be located. He then went with his brother-in-law
who did not believe in reincarnation to see

611
01:11:50,977 --> 01:11:55,780
if a person matching those statements could
be located. They went to the Kalaniah temple

612
01:11:55,800 --> 01:12:00,767
and took a ferry across the river. There they
asked about incense makers and found that three

613
01:12:00,827 --> 01:12:06,469
small family incense businesses were in the
area. The owner of one of them called his brands

614
01:12:06,549 --> 01:12:15,033
Ambiga and Geta Pachaya. His brother-in-law
and associate, Gina Dasa Perera, had been killed

615
01:12:15,073 --> 01:12:21,115
by a bus when he was taking incense sticks to
the market on his bicycle two years before

616
01:12:21,195 --> 01:12:29,342
Prunima was born. Prunima's family... visited
the owner's home soon after. There, Pranima

617
01:12:29,382 --> 01:12:34,649
made various comments about family members and
their business that was correct, and the family

618
01:12:34,710 --> 01:12:42,231
accepted her as being Juna D. Dasa Reborn. Dr.
Harald soon began began investigating the case

619
01:12:42,251 --> 01:12:47,715
when Pranima was nine years old. He recorded
the 20 statements that her parents said Pranima

620
01:12:47,755 --> 01:12:54,541
had made before the two families met. In addition
to the ones already mentioned, they included

621
01:12:54,581 --> 01:12:55,402
the names of

622
01:12:58,785 --> 01:13:05,110
Gina Dasa's mother and wife and the name of
the school that Gina Dasa had attended. Dr.

623
01:13:05,150 --> 01:13:13,472
Haraldson verified that 14 of these statements
were accurate for the life of Gina Dassa. Three

624
01:13:13,512 --> 01:13:20,954
were incorrect and the accuracy of them could
not be determined. He also obtained Gina Dassa's

625
01:13:21,114 --> 01:13:28,056
autopsy reports which documented fractured ribs
on the left, a ruptured spleen, and abrasions

626
01:13:28,116 --> 01:13:34,570
running diagonally from the right shoulder across
the chest to the lower left abdomen. These

627
01:13:34,610 --> 01:13:42,714
corresponded to the birthmarks that Pranima
had over her chest and ribs. This case challenges

628
01:13:42,774 --> 01:13:48,077
attempts to write off this work with a quick
normal explanation. The two families living

629
01:13:48,097 --> 01:13:55,201
145 miles apart were by all accounts complete
strangers to each other and Pranima had no

630
01:13:55,241 --> 01:13:58,743
way of learning about Jinidasa's death before
they met.

631
01:14:02,978 --> 01:14:08,681
given the specificity of Pranima's statements,
including the names of the incense brands.

632
01:14:09,861 --> 01:14:15,725
The various informants could have all faulty
memories, perhaps, but this case is strengthened

633
01:14:15,745 --> 01:14:21,868
by the presence of the intermediary, the teacher,
who was independent of the two families and

634
01:14:21,968 --> 01:14:29,168
searched for the previous personality before
they met. The birthmark is also a large and

635
01:14:29,228 --> 01:14:34,813
prominent, and it fits nicely with the injuries
of the previous personality. Yeah.

636
01:14:39,946 --> 01:14:49,890
Yeah, I mean, it's, those are great stories
for the, you know, validation of reincarnation.

637
01:14:51,211 --> 01:14:57,894
And they're specifically, he seems to be picking
stories that like take apart the skeptics arguments

638
01:14:58,074 --> 01:15:05,377
kind of one at a time. Right? Like he's increasing
the quality of those stories and testing the

639
01:15:05,417 --> 01:15:15,781
various like... theories that the skeptics have,
right? Yeah. So in this one, fraud seems unlikely

640
01:15:15,821 --> 01:15:21,083
because the two families were complete strangers.
Like, how? Yeah, 145 miles apart. They never

641
01:15:21,144 --> 01:15:26,106
met each other. There was a third person who
was the one who went between the families to

642
01:15:26,186 --> 01:15:31,608
do the investigating, which means the information
was passed to that person before they ever

643
01:15:31,648 --> 01:15:36,398
had a chance to meet the other family and gain
any of the information. So then you're sort

644
01:15:36,478 --> 01:15:43,300
of, as a normal explanation, the only thing
you can really resort to is coincidence. Or

645
01:15:43,380 --> 01:15:47,621
that the person in the middle. Like you just
got lucky with all those details. Or that the

646
01:15:47,661 --> 01:15:51,522
person in the middle was the one telling the
story and the only one who had all the information,

647
01:15:51,642 --> 01:15:56,863
right? Like you would have to have it that the
teacher or the person that was in the middle

648
01:15:56,883 --> 01:16:03,545
would have to be the one fabricating all of
the connections, but. No, but that wouldn't

649
01:16:03,665 --> 01:16:10,566
work because. like those statements still happened
in them. As long as I guess you just have to

650
01:16:10,706 --> 01:16:14,709
make sure who's reporting the details and who
you're actually getting it from because if

651
01:16:14,729 --> 01:16:20,033
it's a single source, it's a lot more likely
that it could be a fabricated story. But if

652
01:16:20,053 --> 01:16:25,997
it's all the different sources from both the
different families and the media area like.

653
01:16:26,358 --> 01:16:31,882
But still, even if you do go with coincidence
or with fraud, you still have to have a separate

654
01:16:32,002 --> 01:16:37,687
explanation for the birthmarks and why they
match so well. Like those are pretty unusual

655
01:16:37,727 --> 01:16:42,952
birthmarks to have it all down your left side
and then like across the chest and down, you

656
01:16:42,972 --> 01:16:51,299
know? Like that is... 100%. Those are strange
birthmarks and having them match so well with

657
01:16:51,399 --> 01:16:57,096
a deceased person who happened to be... match
all of the claims that the child made. Like

658
01:16:57,156 --> 01:17:03,481
it just... There's a lot of things you have
to allow to be possible and like a lot of the

659
01:17:03,541 --> 01:17:08,185
coincidences. You could use fraud for the information
if you really, really want to. You still have

660
01:17:08,205 --> 01:17:14,711
to have coincidences. But then you still need
coincidence to describe the birthmarks. And

661
01:17:15,071 --> 01:17:20,976
anytime you're reaching for multiple unlikely
explanations, rather than one unifying explanation

662
01:17:21,016 --> 01:17:26,186
that explains all the evidence. Like you're
missing something, you know? Definitely. Got

663
01:17:26,286 --> 01:17:36,369
another one? Yeah. So this is him just kind
of talking about, this is all part of the chapter

664
01:17:36,569 --> 01:17:42,791
on the birthmark cases, right? So now he's kind
of just analyzing the, yeah, riffing on the

665
01:17:42,811 --> 01:17:49,393
birthmark cases. We may well wonder, even if
we believe in reincarnation, how an injury

666
01:17:49,573 --> 01:17:54,651
to one body could show up on the next one. We
can understand how this might be possible by

667
01:17:54,731 --> 01:18:00,575
looking at research that has examined the interaction
between psychological and physical issues.

668
01:18:00,895 --> 01:18:06,098
To start with, studies have shown that mental
factors can produce general changes to the

669
01:18:06,118 --> 01:18:12,082
body. For instance, stress can contribute to
illness because it produces changes in hormones

670
01:18:12,102 --> 01:18:18,690
and nerve pathways that cause the immune system
to be less able to fight off infections. Likewise,

671
01:18:18,810 --> 01:18:24,936
hopelessness has been shown to increase the
risk of a heart attack or cancer. What is far

672
01:18:25,056 --> 01:18:32,343
less accepted and understood, not at all, is
the idea that the individual mental images

673
01:18:33,904 --> 01:18:39,769
is the idea that individual mental images can
produce very specific changes in the body.

674
01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:44,113
And this is what we need to consider in order
to make sense of the birthmark cases.

675
01:18:47,598 --> 01:18:54,380
Another example of changes in the body that
the mind can produce occurs with certain individuals

676
01:18:54,440 --> 01:19:02,842
under hypnosis. As Dr. Stevenson notes, suggestion
under hypnosis has been shown capable of producing

677
01:19:02,902 --> 01:19:09,624
various changes in the body. For example, not
just the sensation of thirst, but also changes

678
01:19:09,664 --> 01:19:16,649
in the kidneys that occur during dehydration,
changes to the heart rate. control of bleeding,

679
01:19:16,769 --> 01:19:24,666
changes in the timing of a woman's menstrual
cycle. even enlargement of the breasts. All

680
01:19:24,726 --> 01:19:32,348
of these things can be triggered by hypnosis.
In addition to these, a number of cases have

681
01:19:32,388 --> 01:19:40,491
been published in which hypnotists produce blisters
on subjects by saying that they were being

682
01:19:40,531 --> 01:19:46,852
burned and then touching the subjects with a
cool object, such as the tip of a finger in

683
01:19:46,912 --> 01:19:47,533
some cases.

684
01:19:51,870 --> 01:19:58,032
a letter or other recognizable symbol, and the
subsequent wounds that were produced in that

685
01:19:58,092 --> 01:20:07,936
shape. In one case, both stigmata and hypnosis
as a subject was induced, wait, in one case,

686
01:20:08,656 --> 01:20:13,879
one case involved both stigmata and hypnosis
as a subject was induced under hypnosis to

687
01:20:13,919 --> 01:20:20,321
produce bleeding wounds on her feet and palms
along with a number of triangular wounds on

688
01:20:20,341 --> 01:20:28,108
her forehead. that looked as if a crown of thorns
might've made them. Whoa. So you can induce

689
01:20:28,249 --> 01:20:36,711
stigmata with hypnosis apparently. That's crazy.
Just like thinking back to like all the like

690
01:20:36,871 --> 01:20:42,894
secret, like history of the world and like all
the, like imagine if they knew what, how to

691
01:20:43,274 --> 01:20:48,337
hypnotize people back then, you could like do
these things and like make them actually feel

692
01:20:48,377 --> 01:20:55,080
the things that they're supposedly, you know,
encountering. So like you're, you got them

693
01:20:55,140 --> 01:20:59,061
on this like second electric trip, but then
you also have them under some sort of hypnosis.

694
01:20:59,858 --> 01:21:05,579
and you're able to trigger the injuries to their
physical body that they're actually experiencing

695
01:21:05,659 --> 01:21:14,982
in a different realm or whatever. Interesting
idea. Yeah. Well, also, and what was the podcast

696
01:21:15,042 --> 01:21:25,365
where I think it was the consciousness one when
we were talking about the placebo effect. Oh,

697
01:21:25,965 --> 01:21:33,883
yeah. And just the fact that the placebo effect
exists and we have to test everything against

698
01:21:33,963 --> 01:21:39,085
it in order to know if it works or not because
the placebo can make goddamn anything happen

699
01:21:39,765 --> 01:21:43,906
as long as someone believes that something's
gonna happen, their belief can make it happen,

700
01:21:44,966 --> 01:21:48,307
right? So that's another example of this.

701
01:21:51,948 --> 01:21:57,742
In another type of case, subjects have relived
traumatic experiences with the help. of either

702
01:21:57,782 --> 01:22:04,747
hypnosis or drugs, and then developed skin manifestations
that matched those they experienced during

703
01:22:04,767 --> 01:22:11,332
the original experiences. In one notable case,
a man re-experienced an event that included

704
01:22:11,372 --> 01:22:17,676
having his arms tied behind his back with rope.
He developed deep indentations in his forearms

705
01:22:18,076 --> 01:22:24,753
that looked like rope marks. mainstream science
has had difficulty determining a mechanism

706
01:22:24,773 --> 01:22:30,717
that would explain such cases so it has largely
ignored them and That's the frickin that's

707
01:22:31,598 --> 01:22:38,804
the problem. That's the problem you find something
you can't explain just ignore it Yeah, and

708
01:22:38,824 --> 01:22:45,109
until you have a large data set so you can sift
through years later If they ever do that, but

709
01:22:45,470 --> 01:22:51,494
they usually just throw those cases away and
move on. Oh Don't have an explanation can't

710
01:22:51,534 --> 01:22:56,857
be what some people suggest it as. So we'll
just leave it unsolved and move on and file

711
01:22:56,877 --> 01:23:03,642
it away as we don't know. Yeah, especially even
if you have a whole society and a whole group

712
01:23:03,702 --> 01:23:09,006
of people telling you that this is what they
believed for thousands of years or hundreds

713
01:23:09,066 --> 01:23:16,891
of years. So then you combine those beliefs
with placebo and what could have actually happened

714
01:23:16,911 --> 01:23:25,131
with those people just due to the power of suggestion.
Suggestion. and belief. The point of all this

715
01:23:25,191 --> 01:23:29,132
is that the mind can produce changes in the
body that, given our current state of knowledge,

716
01:23:29,172 --> 01:23:35,134
we are unable to explain. When I say the mind,
I do not necessarily mean the brain. I am referring

717
01:23:35,174 --> 01:23:41,535
to the world of thoughts, or the consciousness
that exists in the brain. If this consciousness

718
01:23:41,655 --> 01:23:49,506
or mind can exist after the brain dies, if some
parts of us survives when our bodies die, and

719
01:23:49,546 --> 01:23:58,408
can enter a fetus to be reborn, then it follows
that it can produce changes in the development

720
01:23:58,568 --> 01:24:04,190
of that fetus, just as it can produce changes
during a life. Since we may assume that the

721
01:24:04,230 --> 01:24:10,772
period of development in the womb would be particularly
vulnerable time for the body to be affected,

722
01:24:11,772 --> 01:24:14,753
we can easily see that if a mind occupied a
fetus while

723
01:24:17,794 --> 01:24:23,899
Previous studies have shown can produce specific
lesions on the skin of certain individuals.

724
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:30,765
Those memories could produce birthmarks or even
birth defects that match the wounds that the

725
01:24:30,825 --> 01:24:37,691
mind had experienced in its previous life. If
the mind does survive one life and moves on

726
01:24:37,731 --> 01:24:43,036
to the other, the birthmark cases could logically
involve the same process as the previously

727
01:24:43,076 --> 01:24:45,017
documented hypnosis cases.

728
01:24:48,682 --> 01:24:58,365
That's a good point. Yeah. So more talking about
the birthmark cases. This is him bringing up

729
01:24:58,405 --> 01:25:06,327
questions that these bring up. In surveying
the cases, a question that arises is, if trauma

730
01:25:06,347 --> 01:25:12,489
at the end of life can produce birthmarks and
birth defects in the next one, why are more

731
01:25:12,529 --> 01:25:19,371
babies not born with marks or defects? An explanation
for this involves an idea I alluded to earlier.

732
01:25:19,851 --> 01:25:24,492
In the discussion on hypnosis, I said that it
could produce changes in certain individuals.

733
01:25:25,092 --> 01:25:30,233
Some people respond to hypnosis much more strongly
than others. In fact, some people cannot be

734
01:25:30,273 --> 01:25:36,075
hypnotized at all. In the case of rebirth, we
might also expect that some individuals would

735
01:25:36,115 --> 01:25:41,757
be more susceptible than others to having some
lesions on the new body produced by past life

736
01:25:41,797 --> 01:25:42,137
trauma.

737
01:25:45,546 --> 01:25:52,790
on the skin of most people, but some subjects
are particularly susceptible to it. And likewise,

738
01:25:52,890 --> 01:25:57,993
injuries at death may be unlikely to affect
the next life's fetus for most individuals,

739
01:25:58,473 --> 01:26:04,296
but some may be particularly susceptible to
it. And that makes a ton of sense to me. Well,

740
01:26:04,376 --> 01:26:10,480
yeah, and even like the cases where somebody
didn't have a birthmark, but then they get

741
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:17,656
hypnotized later on and they're able to. their
body reacts to it at that point in time, instead

742
01:26:17,676 --> 01:26:27,231
of earlier on in their life, right? Yeah. So,
yeah, there's no. There's no telling how many

743
01:26:27,291 --> 01:26:34,376
different types of evidences you can find and
different types of scenarios for it, really.

744
01:26:36,317 --> 01:26:45,104
But the fact that we need some more evidence
still. Yeah, I mean, I think these guys are

745
01:26:45,144 --> 01:26:50,948
doing the work for it. I mean, 2,500 cases and
nothing to sneeze at. That's true. There's

746
01:26:51,028 --> 01:26:56,403
nothing to sneeze at, but. And that's just Stevenson's
work. That's not including all the work that's

747
01:26:56,423 --> 01:27:03,826
been done since then. We've got a lot of more
continents, a lot of more places to investigate.

748
01:27:04,807 --> 01:27:10,489
And other than that, I mean really you just
gotta look at the fact that a lot of these

749
01:27:10,529 --> 01:27:21,935
cases have a lot of like death and pain happening
suddenly. Yeah, maybe. At least a lot of the

750
01:27:22,055 --> 01:27:30,262
ones that remember what happened. Sure. It would
also help. I mean, like I said, I haven't finished

751
01:27:30,302 --> 01:27:36,808
the second book yet. But in the second book,
Lee supposedly is supposed to do a lot more

752
01:27:36,848 --> 01:27:43,755
research on the American cases. It would help
to get cases from cultures who don't naturally

753
01:27:43,795 --> 01:27:49,998
believe in reincarnation. Because. The idea
that people want it to happen kind of goes

754
01:27:50,038 --> 01:27:57,141
away in a culture that doesn't really believe
it. Oh, one of Ian Stevenson's books, it's

755
01:27:57,281 --> 01:28:05,663
on the links, but I noticed it. He has one book
dedicated to European cases. So I think it's

756
01:28:05,683 --> 01:28:12,565
a little less common for people to believe in
reincarnation there versus like Buddhist cultures

757
01:28:12,645 --> 01:28:20,863
and whatnot. Yeah, it's like a similar culture
to what we... Or Hindu cultures. Yeah. Anybody

758
01:28:20,883 --> 01:28:28,368
who like full on believes in reincarnation is
like part of their culture, yeah. As I described

759
01:28:28,468 --> 01:28:33,972
earlier, experimental birthmarks are practiced
in several Asian countries. Someone usually

760
01:28:34,012 --> 01:28:39,516
a family member or close family friend makes
a mark on the body of a dying or deceased person,

761
01:28:40,076 --> 01:28:45,667
often with soot or paste. in the belief that
when the individual is reborn, the baby will

762
01:28:45,807 --> 01:28:51,369
bear a birthmark that corresponds to the mark
made on the body. The marker often says a prayer

763
01:28:51,409 --> 01:28:56,970
while making the mark, asking the dying person
to take the mark with them to their new body.

764
01:28:58,071 --> 01:29:05,793
A child is later born with a birthmark that
is said to match the marking made on the body.

765
01:29:06,073 --> 01:29:12,395
Um. So Dr. Stevenson was the first person in
the West to fully document this practice, but

766
01:29:12,475 --> 01:29:19,158
other authors have mentioned it. For instance,
the Dalai Lama wrote in an autobiography about

767
01:29:19,198 --> 01:29:25,541
a case that occurred in his family. His younger
brother died at two years of age. A small mark

768
01:29:25,561 --> 01:29:31,523
was made on the boy's body with a smear of butter
after he died. And his mother subsequently

769
01:29:31,563 --> 01:29:36,265
gave birth to another son who had a pale mark
on his body in the same place where the first

770
01:29:36,305 --> 01:29:45,176
body had been marked. The case is fairly typical
in cases that we have found. Dr. Stevenson

771
01:29:45,216 --> 01:29:52,282
describes 20 such cases in reincarnation and
biology and Jurgen Kiel and I found 18 more

772
01:29:52,322 --> 01:29:58,567
during trips to Thailand and Myanmar. In these
cases the mark is usually made with the expectation

773
01:29:58,587 --> 01:30:04,272
that the reincarnated individual carrying the
mark will be born into the same family as the

774
01:30:04,292 --> 01:30:12,233
disticed individual. and 15 of our 18 cases
were same family cases. This would seem to

775
01:30:12,373 --> 01:30:18,876
lessen the chances that the marking and the
birthmark matched simply out of coincidence

776
01:30:19,277 --> 01:30:25,340
compared to a situation where any baby in the
area could be considered the rebirth of the

777
01:30:25,420 --> 01:30:30,002
deceased individual. Yeah, the fact that they're
doing this whole kind of ritual and they're

778
01:30:30,062 --> 01:30:36,386
praying over these markings and they're like
putting it into the ether. that this is what

779
01:30:36,406 --> 01:30:41,829
they want, this is how they want to know whether
you're being reborn or not. Right. And then

780
01:30:41,869 --> 01:30:50,494
it happens in your own family with the next
birth that happens. Like, that seems unlikely

781
01:30:50,734 --> 01:30:56,657
to happen. I mean, it's a coincidence. Yeah.
Like if you're looking at an entire area and

782
01:30:56,677 --> 01:31:00,559
saying, what is the likelihood that someone
in this area will be born with a birthmark

783
01:31:00,599 --> 01:31:05,718
matching this description? Like there's a bigger
chance. But if you're saying, Within this family,

784
01:31:05,758 --> 01:31:09,721
the next baby that is born is gonna have a birthmark
of this shape and this color. It's like almost

785
01:31:09,761 --> 01:31:14,463
an announcing dream. On the first time, like
you know. Yeah, that's like an announcing dream

786
01:31:14,483 --> 01:31:19,506
with the Bergmarth. But the odds are a lot lower.
Like you're talking about the difference between

787
01:31:19,687 --> 01:31:27,946
one person playing the lottery and a million
people playing the lottery, right? When a million

788
01:31:27,986 --> 01:31:31,888
people play, someone's probably going to win.
But when one person plays, you're probably

789
01:31:31,928 --> 01:31:39,152
not going to win. Same idea. One case that Dr.
Keele and I investigated can serve as a good

790
01:31:39,212 --> 01:31:47,577
example. Chloe Matwase is a boy who was born
in Thailand in 1990. 11 months before he was

791
01:31:47,637 --> 01:31:54,581
born, his maternal grandmother died of diabetes.
Before she died, she told her daughter-in-law

792
01:31:54,601 --> 01:32:01,789
that she would be able to live with her. liked
to be reborn as a male so that she could have

793
01:32:01,909 --> 01:32:08,693
a mistress as her husband did. The day after
she died, her daughter-in-law used white paste

794
01:32:09,013 --> 01:32:13,956
to make a mark down the back of her neck so
that she could recognize her mother-in-law

795
01:32:13,996 --> 01:32:20,479
when she was reborn. Chloe's mother had an announcing
dream when she was three months pregnant in

796
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:27,455
which the grandmother said that she wanted to
be reborn to her. His mother had seen the mark

797
01:32:27,515 --> 01:32:34,102
made on the grandmother's body. When Chloe was
born, she noticed that he had a birthmark on

798
01:32:34,142 --> 01:32:39,067
the back of his neck in the same place where
the mark had been made. We met him and saw

799
01:32:39,087 --> 01:32:46,395
a very noticeable vertical, pale discoloration
on the back of his neck. That had a shape that

800
01:32:46,455 --> 01:32:52,667
matched a finger making a mark down his neck.
The marker confirmed that this unusual birthmark

801
01:32:52,687 --> 01:32:58,791
was in the same place that she had marked as
his grandmother's body. When Chloe was quite

802
01:32:58,851 --> 01:33:04,074
young, he made several statements about the
previous life. He had said that he was his

803
01:33:04,114 --> 01:33:10,157
grandmother and told his mother that he was
her mother. He also said that grandmother's

804
01:33:10,217 --> 01:33:16,921
rice fields belonged to him. In addition, he
showed a number of feminine behaviors. He said

805
01:33:16,941 --> 01:33:22,519
that he wanted to be a girl. and as a young
child he generally sat down to urinate. When

806
01:33:22,639 --> 01:33:28,500
he enjoyed wearing, he also enjoyed wearing
women's clothing and wore his mother's lipstick,

807
01:33:28,620 --> 01:33:33,942
earrings, and dresses many times. At school
he enjoyed playing and studying with the girls

808
01:33:33,962 --> 01:33:38,963
rather than the boys, and he did not engage
in typical male behaviors for boys in that

809
01:33:39,083 --> 01:33:45,405
area such as climbing trees. Both of his parents
complained about his feminine behaviors and

810
01:33:45,425 --> 01:33:51,035
they said that they never, talk to him about
being the rebirth of his grandmother. His feminine

811
01:33:51,075 --> 01:33:57,738
behavior suggests that he was what is known
as a gender identity disorder, and I'll talk

812
01:33:58,058 --> 01:34:03,280
more about such behaviors in chapter 6. I want
to focus now on the birthmark and how it may

813
01:34:03,300 --> 01:34:08,703
have come about. One possibility of course is
coincidence. That would not explain the other

814
01:34:08,743 --> 01:34:14,565
features in the case. In addition, for us to
say that this unusual birthmark just happened

815
01:34:14,585 --> 01:34:21,731
to occur, After the previous personality's daughter-in-law
asked for exactly such a mark, we have to stretch

816
01:34:21,771 --> 01:34:28,056
the coincidence explanation beyond what may
be reasonable. Another possibility worth considering

817
01:34:28,677 --> 01:34:34,262
is that though the child is not the rebirth
of the previous personality, the mother's wish

818
01:34:34,422 --> 01:34:42,049
or expectation somehow produced the mark. Right.
Somehow there's some other form of magic happening.

819
01:34:42,489 --> 01:34:50,141
Yeah. I mean, we already spent all that time
talking about how the mind can control the

820
01:34:50,161 --> 01:34:56,946
body. So in theory, somebody else's mind could
still in theory, the mother's mind may be able

821
01:34:57,006 --> 01:35:02,930
to have during pregnancy, right, have an impact
on the pregnancy and produce a birthmark like

822
01:35:02,950 --> 01:35:07,913
birthmark like that if they expect it. Or want
to dreaming it and like doing like all this.

823
01:35:08,314 --> 01:35:13,917
Yeah. So that actually seems like a semi reasonable
explanation, at least for some of the cases.

824
01:35:14,550 --> 01:35:18,891
But not all the cases happen where it's the
same family case.

825
01:35:22,452 --> 01:35:28,474
So that doesn't explain the cases where the
person is born to a different family that is

826
01:35:28,494 --> 01:35:39,157
a stranger to the original family. Right. What's
that? The evidence is piling. Yeah. In any

827
01:35:39,217 --> 01:35:44,942
event, the experimental. Birthmark cases differ
from the hypnosis and maternal impression cases

828
01:35:44,982 --> 01:35:52,469
in at least one important way. Hypnosis is obviously
an unusual state of mind and similarly most

829
01:35:52,729 --> 01:35:59,596
of the maternal impression mothers were strongly
affected emotionally by the deformities they

830
01:35:59,636 --> 01:36:07,838
saw. So I skipped over that. But Just before
this paragraph that I'm reading now, he was

831
01:36:07,878 --> 01:36:14,860
talking about these cases of maternal impression,
where it is documented that mothers who see

832
01:36:14,900 --> 01:36:21,842
like people who are grossly disfigured can sometimes
have babies that have that same disfigurement

833
01:36:22,462 --> 01:36:28,304
because they're so like emotionally disturbed
by having whatever they saw that it like sticks

834
01:36:28,324 --> 01:36:33,465
with them and they may have some sort of fear
or anxiety or phobia that then further influences

835
01:36:33,505 --> 01:36:40,753
them when they get pregnant later. But what
he's pointing out here is that, anyway, I'll

836
01:36:40,793 --> 01:36:43,434
go back and let him lay it out. But

837
01:36:46,816 --> 01:36:54,701
what is different between the hypnosis cases
and the maternal impression cases is that those

838
01:36:54,741 --> 01:37:00,565
mothers were strongly affected emotionally by
the deformities they saw. In the experimental

839
01:37:00,625 --> 01:37:06,696
birthmark cases, the mother... Though presumably
upset about the death of a family member, often

840
01:37:06,756 --> 01:37:13,640
noted the marking, but was not particularly
moved by it emotionally. In addition, the mother

841
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:20,344
usually saw the marking sometime before she
became pregnant. And while we can well imagine

842
01:37:20,364 --> 01:37:26,647
that pregnancy would be a particularly susceptible
time for traumatized consciousness to affect

843
01:37:26,687 --> 01:37:33,491
the development of a fetus, the idea that an
image the mother saw months or years before

844
01:37:33,531 --> 01:37:40,396
she became pregnant could still produce a mark
on the baby's body seems less logical. Right,

845
01:37:40,416 --> 01:37:46,720
so like if the previous personality died years
before, you did have an experimental birthmark,

846
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:51,804
but again, years before, and then you get pregnant
years later, like the likelihood that you're

847
01:37:51,844 --> 01:37:58,949
still in such a strong emotional state about
it is lower. Yeah, I mean, unless you just

848
01:37:59,009 --> 01:38:05,935
make a look. or large impression, like you do
the work to make it an impression on your consciousness.

849
01:38:05,955 --> 01:38:12,297
Like you do the repetitive things to like, you
make a repetitive thing. But he's pointing

850
01:38:12,417 --> 01:38:17,039
out that they don't necessarily, like they're
not, like they've gone through their grieving

851
01:38:17,099 --> 01:38:23,941
typically by three to four to five years later,
right? Like typically you've gone through your

852
01:38:23,981 --> 01:38:28,891
grieving at that point and you're kind of. Not
that you don't care anymore, but like you're

853
01:38:28,991 --> 01:38:34,094
over it, you're able to go on with your life.
You're not traumatized actively by it anymore

854
01:38:34,294 --> 01:38:41,158
in most cases. Right, but there still can be
an imprint in the consciousness about it. Why

855
01:38:41,198 --> 01:38:47,021
he's differing this from the hypnosis and the
maternal impression cases is because the maternal

856
01:38:47,061 --> 01:38:54,625
impression cases, when they happen, the mother's
already pregnant when she sees the whatever

857
01:38:54,685 --> 01:39:03,316
it was. and it disturbs her emotionally while
she's pregnant. Right? So in that case, you

858
01:39:03,336 --> 01:39:09,841
can see how her having a huge emotional disturbance
while she's in the state of pregnancy could

859
01:39:10,181 --> 01:39:17,728
somehow affect the baby. Or in hypnosis cases,
like, you know, the hypnosis has control over

860
01:39:17,788 --> 01:39:24,653
your emotions at that point. So like, you can
see how the hypnosis can imprint it. But like,

861
01:39:25,078 --> 01:39:30,180
So I guess- Once you're five years removed from
a death and then you get pregnant, like you're

862
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:38,844
just not in that same emotional state you were
in five years ago. Right. So the idea of the

863
01:39:38,884 --> 01:39:46,007
strong emotional or trauma, like still being
that strong five years later to still be able

864
01:39:46,047 --> 01:39:50,969
to influence the pregnancy, it just seems less
likely. Sure. Though it's less likely that

865
01:39:51,009 --> 01:40:00,133
it's a fraud for sure. I do think that it's
just as likely as being real though, because

866
01:40:02,714 --> 01:40:10,098
we're assuming that consciousness in the mother's
consciousness, right, is just because you're

867
01:40:10,258 --> 01:40:15,581
over it in a sense of being a human and having
to go on with your life doesn't mean that your

868
01:40:15,641 --> 01:40:22,456
consciousness forgets. Right. But we're comparing
two options here. I agree. No, I'm saying I

869
01:40:22,516 --> 01:40:26,818
agree. We're comparing. I'm just saying that
it's more likely that it's a real case than

870
01:40:26,898 --> 01:40:34,022
it is a fake case. Right. Because of that. Because
it just shows you that consciousness is powerful.

871
01:40:34,663 --> 01:40:41,587
So no matter what is happening at one time frame,
like the time frame doesn't mean anything.

872
01:40:42,767 --> 01:40:48,758
Like, consciousness doesn't necessarily like
operate on a... linear time scale, especially

873
01:40:48,778 --> 01:40:54,241
if we're talking about reincarnation. Sure,
and some people bring traumas from their childhood

874
01:40:54,301 --> 01:40:57,903
that they no longer even understand that they're
carrying with them. And some people might have

875
01:40:58,063 --> 01:41:03,965
birthmarks from a life before the life that
they had just lived. Right, but I think you're

876
01:41:04,045 --> 01:41:09,668
kind of confusing like what you're trying to
argue for or against because we're essentially

877
01:41:10,188 --> 01:41:16,747
like essentially it's just a thing that skeptics
are bringing forward as a possible explanation

878
01:41:16,787 --> 01:41:24,191
for the same family experimental birthmark cases.
They're saying, well, it doesn't have to be

879
01:41:24,251 --> 01:41:31,155
reincarnation. It could be that the mother,
her impression of having seen the birthmark

880
01:41:31,656 --> 01:41:36,538
is what's causing it in the baby. Not that the
baby is actually the rebirth of that person.

881
01:41:36,819 --> 01:41:41,761
It's the mother who saw it, who's imprinting
it on the baby, which is a possible explanation.

882
01:41:42,134 --> 01:41:50,479
It's just less likely when there's years between
the death and the rebirth. Because for that

883
01:41:50,619 --> 01:41:57,665
explanation, you're relying on the traumatized
emotional state of the mother in order to explain

884
01:41:57,705 --> 01:42:05,332
it, which just seems less likely after years
have gone by. Yes, I do think that it's just

885
01:42:05,372 --> 01:42:11,017
as likely as like the idea that we were talking
about before in the previous episode of like

886
01:42:11,117 --> 01:42:19,696
the consciousness or the brain being an antenna
for the consciousness, right? And if reincarnation

887
01:42:19,736 --> 01:42:27,462
is a thing, if you accept that it's a thing,
then even the mother's imprinting on the child

888
01:42:27,542 --> 01:42:36,930
because of her own things could be the access
point for the previous consciousness to find

889
01:42:36,970 --> 01:42:44,136
where it needs to be. So whether it's happening
organically within the previous personality

890
01:42:44,256 --> 01:42:54,049
and the new personality or whatever... or the
new host, it really just means there is a high

891
01:42:54,249 --> 01:43:01,056
spiritual energy happening that is undetectable
to us because we don't know what's going on.

892
01:43:03,218 --> 01:43:11,302
But behind the scenes, behind the curtain, there
is a portal being laid out so that... the previous

893
01:43:11,342 --> 01:43:17,784
personality, the one that the mother wants so
badly to come back or is having a highly emotional

894
01:43:17,844 --> 01:43:23,947
state about, even five years later, the consciousness,
we know there's a subconscious, we know there's

895
01:43:24,607 --> 01:43:31,310
a part of our consciousness that we are not
aware of on a day-to-day basis. That is still

896
01:43:31,530 --> 01:43:36,992
imprinting on our consciousness. It's part of
our consciousness. It can still have just as

897
01:43:37,052 --> 01:43:44,184
much power, whether we know it or not. And I'm
with you that it is possible that the mothers

898
01:43:44,284 --> 01:43:52,569
are creating the birthmarks without knowing
it. But even if that was the case, it still

899
01:43:52,589 --> 01:43:57,292
doesn't explain the child's statements. Then
again, you're in a situation where you have

900
01:43:57,312 --> 01:44:02,495
to employ one answer for one aspect of the case
and a whole different coincidence or answer

901
01:44:02,575 --> 01:44:08,787
for another part of the case. And now you have
two separate... unlikely explanations for one

902
01:44:08,847 --> 01:44:17,151
case instead of one clean explanation in reincarnation.
That's true. So it's just like in comparison

903
01:44:17,251 --> 01:44:23,755
of explanations we're judging which seems more
likely, which fits the evidence the best. Yeah,

904
01:44:23,775 --> 01:44:31,679
a lot more. I mean, yeah, I'm barely through
this book. We can go all day. Go part three?

905
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:38,647
Let's go part three tomorrow. Okay. I'm fading.
I'm kind of coming back right now, but I think

906
01:44:38,667 --> 01:44:42,990
this is a good time for us to end because I'm
gonna fade again. I was talking to you and

907
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:48,574
I could see your eyes like slowly closing. I'm
like listening like I'm fully aware of what's

908
01:44:48,594 --> 01:44:53,738
going on, but like I'm ready to fall asleep
at any moment. If I close my eyes for a bit,

909
01:44:53,758 --> 01:45:00,283
if I get two minutes straight, I'm out. Alright,
so sorry for the little bit shorter episode.

910
01:45:00,323 --> 01:45:08,009
It's not too bad. We're at an hour 45 ish right
now. for this day that I was in a minute ago.

911
01:45:08,029 --> 01:45:13,494
So we're trying to gain back our pre-recording
leads. So we're actually recording again tomorrow.

912
01:45:13,734 --> 01:45:19,660
Yeah, so we're going to have part three of reincarnation.
Yeah. And I mean, this may call for a part

913
01:45:19,700 --> 01:45:24,324
four or two, depending on how much we can get
through. Yeah. And we'll definitely go to the

914
01:45:24,644 --> 01:45:32,398
North American stories book that he does, and
also the. You're up one, two, so we'll. We'll

915
01:45:32,418 --> 01:45:36,460
probably take time in between them. Yeah. I
don't want to do them all back to back to back.

916
01:45:36,540 --> 01:45:41,182
Yeah, no. I just got some books about giants.
I'm interested in digging into those. Me too.

917
01:45:41,202 --> 01:45:45,544
Those could be some really good episodes. Hell
yeah. And I also got the book of the damned.

918
01:45:45,564 --> 01:45:52,796
Hell yeah. Which would be a great one to go
over. So yeah, so appreciate y'all following

919
01:45:52,836 --> 01:45:59,461
along and listening in. Yeah. We're going to.
Enjoy today's episode. Join the conversation.

920
01:45:59,521 --> 01:46:07,027
Has reincarnation have do you know anything?
Your children ever said weird statements to

921
01:46:07,067 --> 01:46:12,592
you? Write us in. Let us know what's happening
in your life with this topic. So hit us up

922
01:46:12,632 --> 01:46:18,455
on Facebook or Instagram. Leave us a, if you're
on YouTube, leave us a like, leave us a comment,

923
01:46:18,595 --> 01:46:24,256
join the conversation, subscribe. Subscribe,
yeah, please. If you would like to message

924
01:46:24,316 --> 01:46:31,398
the show directly, you can also do it through
host at dualitycheck.net and go to our website

925
01:46:31,458 --> 01:46:37,360
dualitycheck.net to catch all the notes, all
the links, all the details on all the episodes.

926
01:46:37,480 --> 01:46:45,561
Everything's there. Yeah. We will see you guys.
Well, for you next week, we'll be back tomorrow.

927
01:46:45,782 --> 01:46:46,984
Adios. Love you.